Most people don't take the time to realize that there are many Indigenous nations within Europe struggling for independence. With Kosovo finally gaining its independence, I thought that it would be a good idea to put up this video that gives an update on the current stuggles of European 4th World Nations. This is an interview with several people at the CONSEU event who are participating in the struggles and providing information:

Stateless Nations featured within the video - Alba (Scotland), Catalonia, Cymru (Wales), and Euskara (Basque Country)

Other stateless and 4th world nations that participated: Bretagne (Brittany), Kernow (Cornwall), Corsica, Sardigna, Italy's Aosta Valley region, and Mannin (Isle of Man).

I'm surprised that representitives of the Sami peoples and the Circassian and Chechnyans weren't present. Perhaps this was focusing more of Western Europe.


Basically, I'm making the point that there are many indigenous peoples of Europe who have their rights abused every day, but it seems as though it's not as discussed as much. How do you feel about this?



Watch the Video HERE

No offense, Dorotea, but I don't like this. I'm kind of leary about these nationalist movements, like the SNP and Plaid Cymru. They seem to be more about hating the British and many of them are socialists. Sorry, but in my family, red, you're better off dead. And how are these nations going to surive? They're part of large, more prosperous nations, and they might be poorer off as a result. I like you, you are a smart, intelligent, passionate woman, and I respect that. But I don't like this stuff, don't take this the wrong way. If you want, send me a PM and I will elaborate further.

I can understand why you feel that way, but personally for me, I see it as hurtful and demeaning when many are losing their rights every day.

I'm not aligning with any Nationalist groups, I just want freedom. That's what a lot of others are wanting, too. As far as poverty goes, look at the Balkans. Serbia and other countries are poor as hell, but at least they're independent. That's all that should matter.

I think its good to be sceptical of nationalist movements especially when they hijack and take advantage of peoples emotions.

I want freedom and when i mean freedom, i mean actual freedom...i dont mean just sovereignty. I want freedom for the englishmen and women as well for an english anarchist is the same as a scottish anarchist.

If there was a peoples movement rather than a specific party that would be better. In places like the baltic states...they have a good chance of becoming what their enemies once were. When u experience violence sometimes you absorb it and deal out the same to others.

:blink: Excuse me, Aosta Valley and Sardinia populations are absolutely not stateless, and Aostan population is absolutely not a4th world nation but one of Italy's richest and most visited regions.
Valle D'Aosta and Sardinia are special statute regions of Italy, whit a high autonomy and their own native language as first, and teached in schools. They have special statutes to protect their folklore, and they do deserve it. Problems only came out with fascism that tried to eliminate their folklore; but since when we've got the Republic these regions have been given special statues and statal helps to help them mantein and develop their national culture. I know that Sardinia has got a tradition of nationalism, but I think they're statisfied now: in fact they never did anything against governament nor protested in any ways since 1946, when the Republic was formed. Same for Valle D'Aosta, which currently is one of the most developed and pronsperous regions of Italy.

I have to agree with you. I think it's shitty what happened in Kosovo. Kosovo has been apart of Serbia since the 1300's. I think the US government is foolish to support such a move. To support seperatist movements means you would also support Mexico if it declared that Texas and most of the Southwest was theirs.

I do not think that the Serbians should be suprised that the Kosovians dont want to be part of Serbia considering their history. I also feel that Serbia's attitude towards...the ownership of Kosovo. These are actual people...their not just a resource for the Serbian economy, their human beings. I think quite frankly they shouldn't be offended...i mean if England committed acts of genocide towards Scottish in Scotland...do u think we'd want to stay part of England?

It is a natural reaction really...i support Kosovian independance but i dont like the parties because i think they will play on kosovian fears against serbians and it will increase divisions between both peoples.

*headdesk*

All I know is that Aosta Valley participated in this event. Beyond that, I have no idea.


Also, I feel like everyone should have their own separate countries or states of some sort. Just because they're not part of a larger empire doesn't mean that they can't be friends. The English can be friends with the Scottish and vice-versa. The Mayans can be friends with Mestizo Mexicans without being unified.

I'm not calling for violence, I just want freedom. End of story.


I'm glad that Kosovo is independent. If it's what they want, then it's what they should get.

Why should they not be "offended" when Kosovo has been a part of Serbia for 700 years? Being that you do not support that kind of thing happening in your own country, surely you should be able to draw some sort of parallel.

The point of it all is that Kosovo has a right to be independent. Montenegro voted to be independent from Serbia and they got it. That's what I'm hoping will happen with the UK in the future - it will break apart like Yugoslavia.

Bretagne?
I love Bretagne. It must be one of my favorite holiday places. When I was there, you could notice it is different from the rest of France. But from what I've seen, it was not radical (as in: there being bad blood or anything)...but what do I know?
They do have their own language, but of course they all speak French. Road signs show 2 names: The French name and the name in Breton.
Also interesting is that France is producing a lot of nuclear energy, but none of this is to be found in Bretagne. They are heavily against it.
I did not know they wanted to be a separate state. But they have a very celtic background, and as far as I know it's the only place in France with celtic influences.
I'd love to live there but I don't know if it'll ever happen.

What gives them that right? It's not a right just because they want it.

They shouldn't be offended because considering what happened in the genocide...this reaction...wanting independance is ...what id call an under-reaction. And i do think it has roots in the whole genocide thing and think it might also be to do with representation in the government. A lot of independance bids are to do with who's representing you...is anyone representing you? For some people their needs aren't being recognised.

They shouldn't be offended because the only reason they've given for wanting to keep Kosovo haven't been along the lines of...we really love kosovians, we think their great. But more...their taking away part of our industry or its illiegal ...we made a deal with the russians, they said we could keep them.

If the people don't want to stay with Serbia, they dont want to stay with Serbia...how do you "rule" over a reluctant public? Wouldn't there be more unrest and violence if you didn't give them independence.

I haven't heard any reasons from the serbians why it would be good for Kosovo to stay with Serbia, all i've heard is how bad it is for Serbia.

I thought it was called Brittany.

If there is a majority at least who want a seperate state...or maybe something like the way the Isle of Man works...then that should happen. There should be a way they can opt out from things like nuclear power, use of resources...laws even.

In English it is yeah...but I'm just calling it like the French and we do.

I live in Catalonia and I know what being in such a situation means.
Spain is a perfect example for this. In our country there are 4 official languages: Spanish, Catalan (Catalonia), Basque (Basque Country) and Galician (Galicia); but the main nationalist movements are going on in two regions. You have the Basque Country, whose habitants (LOTS of them) want the independence and some of them (VERY few) show that in a violent way, I mean with terrorism. This terrorist group is called ETA, I'm sure you've heard of it before.

On the other hand, you have Catalonia, where I live. As in Basque country, lots of habitants here want independence or at least some bigger tolerance coming from other Spanish people, especially from governments and authorities. There used to be a nationalist group called Terra Lliure (=free land in catalan) until 1995.

Us Catalan people feel discriminated by other spanish people. It's like a vicious circle: We want independence (or at least TOLERANCE) because we pay more taxes (in catalonia there are more toll gates than in the whole rest of spain, for example) and because there is some kind of disrespect going on (people call Catalan "a dialect" and don't recognize our own cultures and languages). And they don't want to let us go because Spain would be NOTHING without the tourism, money, trades and business that Catalonia attracts with its cities, landscapes and international airports and harbours. Don't forget that Barcelona is the most touristic city in the world after Paris, for example. And people are aware of the advantage of having such a region (Catalonia) as a stable source.


So, my point is that it doesn't matter if "Catalonia has been a part of Spain for 3 centuries". In fact, that makes it even "worse": for many years our region has been abused by the governments, paying higher taxes and receiving less help. For example, so you can figure it out: the improvements of the subway in Madrid was paid ONLY with taxes from Catalonia. But the improvements of the subway in Barcelona were paid by ourselves.

Still, extreme nationalism is bad. But the defense of one's culture and rights, which are being oppressed by another nation, is something noble. Of course the way ETA acts is violent, excessive and over the top; but people shouldn't forget that there are very few assholes who act that way and many people who would like to live in an independent country where it feels like HOME.

The Serbs were in no way commiting genocide against the people of Kosovo. There were, I believe, a little under 200 people killed in a standoff they had, because the people of Serbia were keeping control over a revolting Kosovo. 200 casualties in no way equal a genocide. This strife of course was abused and taken advantage of by the Clinton administration which propigated an illegal and unjustified attack against Serbia, killing thousands of innocent Serbs. The reason for killing thousands of innocent Serbs was to distract the media, who was threatening Clinton's "legacy" with coverage of an ongoing sex scandal in the Whitehouse.

And unfortunately, Kosovo will be used as an oil resource, more like a wasteland for an oil pipeland. It's in the works as we speak. Independence = having your land torn up and used as a transport for oil. Here's to independence.

So no, I do not support Kosovian independence. I think the land was stolen from the Serbs. Land that rightfully belonged to the Serbs for over seven centuries. On top of this, I feel having an extreme Islamist state in the Balkins will not benefit Europe, nor the West.

Genocide is not defined by the number of casualties but by the motive of why the people were killed in the first place. It was an example of ethnic cleansing or genocide.

In my view no one really owns a country...the land belongs to the people who live on the land. They work on the land...they keep the land. Independance is fine...but the political parties in Kosovo...should not be trusted. The motives for independance are mixed and it's important to do it for the right reasons.

Exactly!

I don't want to sound like a prick but, not every man has a right to be free. You've got to fight for the right, you can't get it by just "wanting to". You've gotta deserve it.

Do you really want them to fight for it? Coz that would mean war...

If kosovo doesnt have a right to be independent then serbia doesn't have a right to ownership.

Serbia certainly hasn't earned it, they certainly haven't made kosovians welcome...kosovo needs a good argument to stay with serbia.

the way i see it, and it's strictly my opinion, it's not really about freedom, at least not in my country. it's about politics, and that's disturbing. i live in a city/region, where the hungarian community is very strong. i have hungarian friends, coworkers and so on, and not even one of them even said one thing about them becoming independent. romanian women married hungarian men and vice-versa. what should they do? divorce just because they don't have the same nationality?!? the only ones i hear talking about the independence of the region where the majority of the population is hungarian, are those damned politicians, who want to have their way with us (romanians and hungarians). there's no discrimination between us people (there is, according to more or less recent "studies") and the laws certainly aren't different for any of us. national identity and culture are encouraged by the state and by the laws. i agree that the laws of a country should be fair to all of its inhabitants and i don't agree with discrimination, just because we belong to different historical regions.

Edit: i forgot to mention that there is a region in romania that politicians talk about separating from the rest of the country, just because it has hungarians as the majority of the population. even if it's NOT a separate historical region. people don't push this matter. politicians do.

That's exactly the points that I was trying to get at. I think that's part of why the UK would never let go of Scotland - the tourism is too good and the oil refineries are a necessity. It's cruel to try and suppress a minority group and then take what they already have.

And about the ETA...I am familiar with them because of the Ibiza incident last year, and it hurts the know that some have stooped to such measures to gain freedom.

And to address Max - there is an independece movement in Bretagne, and like Ireland and Basque Country, some have sadly resorted to terrorism. There was a bombing in France in 1979 from a Breton nationalist group, if I recall right.