Read here

So... what do you guys think? I'm a little shocked! :o A daddy is gonna give birth?! Ridiculous in my opinion...

I think it's great that they can still have a baby together. :)

think so, too, but i´d like to know in how far he is a man? does anyone know if he had a surgery?

The article says he still has a vagina, but is legally declared a male.

Good luck to em is all i can say!!!!

That's fascinating.

I wish them good luck :)

why would it be ridiculous? It's seems very natural actually.
I wish men could have babies...wish both of us could have babies...it would be great. :dance :dance :dance Yeah so im happy now.

Not really a man. It's just another pregnant woman.

"he" still has all "his" female reproductive organs. "He" was born female.

So,for me nothing new. Just another pregnant woman. Does the person have ovaries? Yes! a uterus? YES! a vagina? YES! "he" is a WOMAN.


Just my opinion. :huh:

I read about this a while ago and I really don't think that it's that amazing or shocking, either. I mean, he used to be she and so on, which has been already pointed out... So... Just another pregnant woman like Kanna said.

Everytime I see this article, I laugh. She's not a man. She's a woman who mutalated herself and cut off her breasts. Therefore it's not a man giving birth at all. Completely unamazing, and a little gross at the same time. That's my opinion.

Agreed.
Nothing MAN at all.

I agree. This sounds like it wouldn't be out of place in A Brave New World. This is all so freakish, and like you said, gross :wacko:

I'm not gonna knock on anyone for doing their own thing... but
geesh... can't we as human beings at least keep some things simple and normal?... like the body parts we were born with and the different hormones running through our body :wacko:

Uhm.. well said.

Physically he's a women...emotionally mentally and personally, he's a man. He is a man having a baby. He will deal with it as man would if men biologically had wombs.

What is normal is a notion that is in constant flux and changes across time and space. It's helpful to see gender as not a black and white thing...but see it as a grey area which can't properly be defined.

Excellent reply Cat - I agree with you there.

To all intents and purposes - if you met him in the street, the way that he acts, thinks and most importantly feels, he is in fact a male. A male who simply has female reproductive organs. I have a huge respect for that couple going through that. They want a child - she is unable to have one, and he has the ability to give them both the child that they want, a child that will no doubt be loved and cherished and raised as any other.

I also have a huge respect for them going through with doing something like this because they know the prejudices and the abuse that they are going to receive, and yet they still do it because they do want a child so badly.

I see nothing disgusting or unnatural about that. It's two people who love each other, and wish to bring a child into the world, going about it the only way that they are able.

I've never understood nor believed (as there is no real proof) as to what it means to be "emotionally and personally" a man/woman.


I'm a guy. I'm very sensitive, loving, caring, as well as love long talks and really care about relationships. Many of the attributes we consider to be "woman-like", while i'm also into sports, good muscular build, etc.


The point is. there is no definition of what a guy/girl should feel. So just because someone "says" they are all confused inside doesn't mean anything. big deal, get over it.

I'm confused and screwed up in my own life, but that doesn't mean I need to start coming up with all of these insane theories to make up for it...


anyways

its really about identity and what you perceive yourself as...if u had a list of what it is to be a man or woman...u might find yourself in both or one or the other...its how you perceive yourself...a psychological thing.

I personally dont know whether i am female or male...i think im a female but i have male attributes. It's a grey area and its deeper than physical characteristics. I am human and that's good enough.

My teacher told me that there are 15 types of gender,
but we only know two

male and female, because it's the most common

a bit off topic but I just wanted to share it

No offense to you, Cat , but I think that's crap.

Gender is not a flux. You don't get to choose whether you are male or female. It's a matter of biology, and I think this case of the pregnant transexual proves that point quite well. You can want to be a particular gender, wish you were a particular gender, act as though you are a particular gender, but it still doesn't make you anything but a pregnant "man."

I'll finish my point with this, that when I was in college, I was forced to take a social re-engineering propiganda class, where we were force fed bullshit about sexuality and gender, and told that if we did not accept the politically correct tripe they told us as fact, we were biggoted and racist. We were then given a survey by the university inquiring about rape, and it asked us our gender. There were FIVE options: Male, Female, Transgendered, Transitioning, Undecided. Absolute rediculous tripe. I just don't buy that kind of bullshit.

In closing, everyone is free to do and act as they wish, but everyone else is free to accept or reject what you are doing.

So, I'm curious then - if a TS male fully goes through the transitioning process... (i.e. has taken all his hormone pills, chopped off the boobies, gotten a penis, etc.) they are still female?

I have to disagree with that. I think people CAN pick what sex they are, and people are doing it every single day. If I didn't have a vagina, no matter if it was by birth or otherwise, I would still consider myself male. Biologically, I would still be female if I still had all my reproductive organs and whatnot - but technically, I'd be a dude. *shrug*

I have a lesbian friend whose girlfriend is transitioning to male. And I believe that if Maddox (the TS) wants to be male, then he should go through with it. Ever since I met him I thought he was a dude anyway lol, just the way he carried himself and everything. He shouldn't be forced to live in a female's body if that's not the sex he feels he should be.

If someone does not feel that they should be the sex that they are, they should have every right to transition. If people want to choose what sex they want to be, then so be it.

the problem with self-perception... is that people who are doing the perceiving are often misinformed and not smart enough to do so accurately.

Just like people self-interpreting the world today in politics, economics and so forth...

You can cut off your penis, take hormones, get all the plastic surgery you want, and you will still have imprinted within every single cell in your entire body a Y chromosome, ultimately making you a male. You can not have a Y chromosomectomy, and as long as that Y chromosome is there, your body will fight you every step of the way. You can BELIEVE you are a particular gender, but alas, your body is programed to secrete certain hormones at certain times. You will never change the biological functions of your body... a man can never give birth, and a woman can never father a child.

Personally, I feel that people should be able to do what they wish. If men want to cut off their penis and grow breasts, fine. If women want to cut off their breasts and construct a penis, fine. I'm not advocating that people who do such things should be stoned or thrown in jail. Hell, I'm not even lobbying that this "man" who is giving birth should be forced to give up parental rights. My position is, when people do weird and abnormal things, such as change their sex with surgery and then decide to have babies, it should be seen just as that: weird and abnormal. People shouldn't be going on Oprah and have the media try to tell us that this is just another variation of a normality. It's not, it never will be, and even though a few try to convince themselves otherwise, the mass majority will never accept stuff like that as normal. I know it's completely politically incorrect to say such a thing, but what can you do? Throw me in jail if you don't like it.

It looks wrong....

He's like Schwarzenegger

I'm not trying to fight you on this Raquel, or debate whether you're wrong or right. In fact, I agree with you that no matter what someone does to themselves physically... biologically they are still their original sex. I understand that. I was just saying that physically, people are able to pick their gender. I misinterpreted your views on it and perceived them as being against transgendered people, and I'm sorry.

Going back to the topic at hand: I don't think that it's that serious of an issue. Transgendered people are ultimately a part of our society... and if the bitch is pregnant, then obviously he's not a "man" and shouldn't be given all this special treatment and seen as a male. I don't think it's that big of a deal. He still has his vagina, so it's not like giving birth will be anything out of the ordinary. I just don't find it weird, but again, it's my opinion.

I think the media try to find different stories that will shock and astound people, and unfortunately this was one of them. Like I said, I don't think it's that serious, and I think that the media should concentrate on more important issues, like the election. But that's a whole 'nother story that I won't go into, haha.

I see it as normal...i would see it as normal when i was young. There's no reason why its not...he's man coz he says he's a man. There is so much more to gender than physical characteristics.

The problem here is...that some people doctors, nurses and secretaries are refusing him treatment because they perceive his condition as abnormal. If physically he's a women...then its not abnormal...he can functionally have a baby, if he was a man with a penis and a womb...and somehow he got pregnant, that would be abnormal and slightly dangerous. Although you could cut out the baby...but you need all the right hormones. It's too tricky.

see your right in one case gender is a very grey area and you might simply be a mix of both...neither female nor male. People should research it and then make an informed decision. It's not certain knowledge. I am as far as im concerned...physically a women...but i cant say im completely a women and or completely a man. I feel that there are societal factors outwith my control that form our gender identity. And that's why i believe it can fluctuate. Hermaphrodites are a physical example of how...even physical characteristics dont determine gender but its other peoples perceptions that try and influence the person and sometimes they get it wrong and it turns out they feel more male even if their considered by mum and dad as female.

So its not biologically deterministic. If society is involved in the construction of gender...it means that the construction of gender can change and you can deconstruct it if u so wish.

It's fine that people change their sex if they feel uncomfortable in their bodies, but once you have choosen I think you should stick to your decision. If you decided to be a man, then it means that you feel like a man and want to live your life as a man; and it's clear to anyone that a man can't and will never be able to give birth. I don't know if I made my point, what I mean is that if you choose to be a man and feel like a man your maternal instinct shouldn't be there!

being black or white is a matter of location but genders are genders. that's how nature made us and nature will always come back straight up in your face when you try to change the order of things.

i'm not christian AT ALL i don't believe in any religions but someone told me one day that "god made man and woman and love was born, you can only give birth by being straight"

well not anymore. but at the very beginning that's how things were and that's how things should stay. imo... you can't deny that when a lesbian couple decide to have a child they still have to look for male sperm.

so yeah about this guy/girl the only thing that worrie me is, is there any risks for the baby to get some trouble with his gender identity at birth ?

society shouldn't be involved in the construction of a gender we should seriously leave it things how they were at the beginning because we're not above nature so one day nature will take it's rights back. really i'm serious. but whatever...

what about your paternal instinct?
and is being a man as rigid as that?

Say if its natural for a man to change to women because he feels naturally a women...then that's nature?

it's not. because someone who's born a man was born a man and period. he can't technically feel naturally a woman. then maybe he can feel like he would live better as a woman and try to change it that's the nuance. but he wasn't born with the choice so i think it's somehow not right to try to change that.

What if it makes him mentally ill if he doesn't change? Isn't it natural to stay healthy and try and do what you can to keep a balanced life physically, emotionally and mentally?

yeah i understand that for some people it makes them feel better to change sex and somehow i agree we should let them do what they want everybody should have access to hapiness

what i wouldn't agree with is men changing sex and trying to really have babies i mean come on this is not right, if he was born a man even tho he changes sex he will still genetically be a man so what with the baby ?

AND anyways that man exemple will still have to deal with the fact that a part of his baby isn't only from him and the other person he loves coz they still need a woman to make it happen

fucked up, really

so basically what i'm trying to say is everybody should do what they feel like doing as long as it doesn't involves changing what nature has set up for us. men are not ment to get pregnant so that kind of things shouldn't happen

In this case his wife was unable to have a baby so they did what any normal person would do if they really wanted a baby. It isnt as if he didnt try it that way first. I admire his determination, not many would be mothers have that same sentimentality for babies.

They should've thought of adoption then...
You can't be like: "today I'll be a woman, tomorrow a man, and next month a woman again cause the situation requires me to be a female, however when it all ends I'll come back to being a man." Can't you see that it's sick and twisted? And what if they want to have another baby in, say 2 years? He'll play a woman again?

I wasn't trying to debate you, I was just talking in generality to my imaginary audience on top of my imaginary soapbox. I didn't mean to make it sound like you were attacking me personally, or that I was responding to you personally. I read your post and just started writing.

Going to a crazy university, it always felt like they were constantly trying to socially re-educate us on what was and was not correct to think. Like thinking the way I though was some sort of illegal "thought crime." Me, being the rebel I am, would always say, "This is crap, and if you don't like it, throw me in jail." So please, don't think I was yelling at you. I was just yelling! I'm very good at yelling into the wind. You just happened to be standing downstream.

:D

Oh and BTW, sidenote, to say that gender is a "social construction" is really just a bastardized definition of the word "gender" in my opinion. Gender never used to be defined by people's feelings, inclinations, or proported social roles. I don't buy into the new definitions of words, imposed upon me by so-called enlightened folk.

Er...killing jews is sick and twisted, raping is sick and twisted...this is wonderful. A wee baby is going to be brought into the world with parents that actually want it. So no i dont see that its sick and twisted.

If you think about it being a man and women is a lot like playing roles in life. When he has the baby, he will give it to the mother (his wife, she's playing that role), he'll go on his tablets to stop his menstrual cycle or whatever.

And about adoption...they may have tried adoption but it seems that there's all this problem with same sex couples and if you have a medical institution that wont call you a man. Well its difficult, they may have discriminated against him and felt that he was too complicated. I don't the individual policies with in his own state.

Anyway, if nature has a problem then it can do something about it. Although i think nature is really gonna bother with one guy wanting to have a baby, i think its far more concerned with people messing with its immune system (i.e. cutting down trees).