What's your opinion on the subject?


To me, I think there should be abortions in very concrete cases. Some people would say no to it because to them it's wrong to kill a human being, it's infanticide. But at least to me, it's not killing a baby, it's just a fetus, it hasn't developed yet.

I think that, for example, in a case were the pregnancy is due to a rape, the woman should be allowed to have an abortion (as long as the fetus hasn't developed yet, but let's allways consider that's the case) and not have the task of carrying a unwanted son because of a night were someone that should be in jail raped her.
Or if a future son would end up dying anyway or have a severe problem that wouldn't allow him to trully live.

To me, an abortion shouldn't be frequent, but it should be allowed because of the many reasons one could have to make that decision.
Besides, it's very naive for people to think it would end just because it's forbiden. In so many cases, people do illegal abortions because of lack of option and put their own life at risk by doing it in places with no conditions. Some even end up going to court because of it when sometimes, it was the best decision for them.

If it isn't right to make an abortion it also isn't right to put a woman's life at risk when it's treathened.

I just hope you know were I'm getting at... I'm not saying it should be used as a condom or anything. I just think that it should be allowed so that many people don't have to have their lifes ruined by one incident like a rape.



But that's just my opinion, what's yours?

P.S: Sorry for the bad english!

I think abortion should be possible at all times. Of course it's stupid to let the fetus develop for months and then say: "Aw shit, I don't want it". That's bullshit because you can already know in the first months that you're pregnant because there won't be a menstruation.

The world as it is today is getting more and more problems with overpopulation. So just because of that alone, I think we should support abortions when they are wanted by the person who is pregnant.
I can't stand extreme religious people who say that you can't use protection and who are against abortions. They should be teached with an iron hand about the problems of overpopulation!

Abortion is only acceptable if the woman is too old or sick to carry the child, if the child is a product of rape, or if the child is going to be mentally or physically handicapped to the point of no recovery. Other than that, it's flat-out stupid and wrong. Give the child up for adoption, or for fuck's sakes, USE BIRTH CONTROL!

As a woman I just want to have a choice whether to give birth or not. I'm sick when I see a bunch of male politicians trying to set some rules about abortion. By what right they decide for me?!

Last year, we had a national votation (don't know the proper name for it in english:P), to decide wether or not to legalize abortion, and the government would aprove whatever the people decided (and so they did).


That was the first time I could vote, so I did. I voted yes. Here's why:


If you forbid people of doing something, they'll probably do it anyway. So lets say for example I have a daughter, and she gets pregnant and decides to do an abortion. As her father, I would prefer if she did it in a safe place, where does no health risk for her.

So if people are going to do it anyway, let them do it somewhere safe.

To me, there are multiple ethical problems with abortion. The biggest unethical problem I see is the decision the mother is given to decide whether or not the life growing in her womb is a child or not. It either is or is not a baby/human life. When women or anybody else for that matter can arbitrarilly decide whether or not it is a baby growing inside of her or just a mass of tissue, there are ethical problems with that. If I murder a pregnant woman, should I be charged with two murders or just one? Who decides and why should that decision be upheld? And if I am charged with TWO murders, then on what grounds should I be charged, with millions of abortions being performed at all stages of pregnancy every year? I've heard others justify the "two murders" position with "It is the mother's CHOICE." However, again, there are ethical problems with that, because the mother is given the power to arbitrarilly choose yes it is a life, or no it is not a life.

Me personally? I would never have an abortion. My mother was encouraged by doctors to have me aborted, and due to religious persuasions, she didn't abort me. Abortion is, when all is said and done, unethical, and to me it spits on the whole "life is sacred" principle that almost all of humanity lives by. People in my family have had abortions, and have paid consequences for it, such as infertility later in life due to scarring on the uterine wall. Abortions also greatly increase the risk of certain cancers such as uterine and breast cancer. Most women have psychological consequences as well after an abortion -- something I've seen first hand in my family. Therefore, I feel that abortion should be a last resort, not an "oopsie, I got pregnant, now I have to do something about it." In a world where contraceptives are easilly accessable to almost every woman, there is no legitimate or ethical reason to have abortion on demand. And as far as "overpopulation" is concerned, most of Europe is dying and encountering a negative birth rate, and the US is not far on its heels. To justify abortion as population control is sickening to me... Orwellian to say the least.

Here's my two cents. I am pro-life, which is unusual because I am: 1- female, 2- young (in my twenties), 3- college-educated, and therefore "liberal", according to the Ann Coulter's of the world :rolleyes: , 4- pagan, and 5- libertarian.

I'm not prolife because of any great religious reasons, but rather for scientific reasons. When I was in high school, there was an anti-abortion group having a rally outside our school (We have a high teen pregnancy rate :blush: ). Contrary to the media depiction, they were actually nice, decent people. I don't know how it is in other countries, but here in the states, the media routinely portrays pro-life activists as being crazy, terroristic people. At first I was revolted by the pictures, but doing some research proves to me that life begins at conception. Just do a quick google search, and you'll see what I mean.

I'm on the fence here...since im disabled i know that contraception and abortion can be used in social policies to stop disabled people from being born. Eugenics essentially.

Abortion i think should exist coz i think that they'll do it anyway and probably die from it. I think it should especially exist where there are problems with the distribution of contraceptives. Especially in developing countries.

I do wish the religious people would stop hijacking this and start dealing with the root of the problem. The reasons why people go to extreme lengths like this. I hope that people dont abort because their kid has a curved spine because i dont think that's a good reason to abort. I've had a relatively good life. I might not have not because of my spine but because of other factors outwith the control of me or my parents.

Here are some situations ive thought about

Rape - absolutely
Oooh i dont want a boy i want a girl - fuck off, that amounts to infanticide, u may as well drop the baby down a well or go live in Sparta.
Oooh my baby has down syndrome and i dont have the money or the health insurance or good enough support facilities to help me take care of it - fair enough but think about the benefits, disabled people can have good lives, its not a tragedy.
Ooooh my baby has down syndrome, its not my perfect baby (im rich) and i want a normal baby - a baby isnt for christmas and you have enough adequate economic resources to take care of it.

You see...i really think if you have good enough resources, you should have a the baby. I can't dictate but ...this is why im neither anti nor pro. And i take issue with the methods of abortion, coz ive seen those photos and not all of them are done of foetuses, some of them look pretty small but formed and that to me means they might have had an awareness of pain or distress...or as some of the photos suggest had an awareness of their heads been ripped off.

I still think the baby/foetus matters...the sooner we get rid of the core root problems then the sooner the need to have an abortion will decrease.

im pro-life but neither anti-abortion or pro-abortion.

I'm for it.
Of course, it should be done within the first 2 months. People who abort illegaly after the 2 month of gestation are, in my opinion, irresponsible. Because, if you have a minor posibility of being pregnant, you are mostly aware of it: you had sex and sth happened that could make you pregnant (eg the condom broke)/you have no menstruation/there's one night you can't remember anything about (eg you took drugs)/you have been raped...first thing you should do in this case is making the test and, if it's positive, take the pill.

If that isn't possible, abort within the next 2 months. From that border on, go and assume the consequences.

Of course, the question is: when is a fetus considered as a human?

I agree with many people here! I am pro life! I'm 19 weeks pregnant with my first. It happened by accident, but the thought of having an abortion never even crossed my mind. Yes, the timing could have been better, but fuck timing when you receive such a precious treasure in your life.

As some of you probably know, I'm form Romania. Just like in other communist countries in Europe, abortion was forbidden and women all over the country died because of unsanitary places and unspecialized people who performed the "surgeries". Other women tried to medicate it to death. The result: physically and mentally handicapped persons. The sad part about the whole thing was, that unless you studied the calendar and you took your temperature daily, you were "doomed" to abstinence, because protection was never available. I'm not even approaching sex-ed here. It wasn't even a question. The result was, that the orphanages were absolutely packed, but our golden era was so golden, that few people knew about those children. Many of us only found out about it after 1989, when they legalized abortion. They forgot, though, that with legalizing abortion, there should be at least a few contraceptive methods available. The result was, that the abortion rate skyrocketed in a matter of months. It was sad and it still is sad to think about it. In time, things got better, but really, in my eyes abortion is not a solution. If you're mature enough to have sex, then you should be mature enough to deal with everything that might come your way if you decide to have it.
Rape or severely disabled babies are, on the other hand, a different thing. As a mom to be, it would be heart-wrenching for me, to see my child suffer. I can't even think about it without starting to cry. I know it's really harsh, and I'm not a higher power who is allowed to decide about who should live or die, but I know there's no greater pain for a parent than to see his/her child suffer.

As a conclusion, I should probably quote heavymetalhippy01cg. In my eyes, she said it best: "im pro-life but neither anti-abortion or pro-abortion"

I just can't stand the thought of terminating a life for frivolous reasons:


One of my friends on DeviantART made this, and I think it sums it all up.

I am pro abortion because of many reasons. One thing that isn't a good one is an abortion with no foundation, I mean, an abortion that is done for unvalid reasons or just because someone 'forgot' to use a condom.

I think everyone has a right to have a life, but sometimes there is a great lack of options. If someone is responsible enough to have sex, that someone should be responsible enough to consider the consequences. I know one person who had to get an abortion because the fetus had such a grave problem, it would just suffer and die eventually, and yet, that person wanted a baby more than anything. She was very lucky the abortion was legalized or else she could have many problems doing it somewere not safe.

But murder (sorry I don't know your name!) is right. The question is: when is a fetus considered as a human?

IMO, when it can survive without a mother.

I full agree with you . If people are going to do it anyway , let them do it without taking any risk.
IMO nobody is pro abortion . I mean , nobody will do it just for doing , like " I'm so bored , let do abortion " . Nobody thinks like that. Women that do it have her reasons and I'm pretty sure it isn't easy a decision .In some cases, women has nightmares and needs psychological help .

By the way Doro , that pic is very powerful but I must say that doesn't shock me much . You may think I have a cold heart , but I prefer that the woman abort when she doesn't' want the child . I think it's way worst to watch abandoned kids in the streets or mothers who kill their own childrens . It's more cruel in my opinion ...

P.S : I have meet people that are against abortion but they agree if the child is going to be mentally or physically handicapped . I have question : The love of the mother wouldn't be equal from the handicapped and the " normal " kid ? I mean , If I had an the handicapped son and a heathy one ,I would love them in the same way .
Seriously I don't get it :blink:

(i'm sorry about my awful english )

I'm for it.
Like someone said if a women is maybe too young,too old or sick it's ok to have an abortion.
But before abortion I wolud think about that a lot,do I really want to that...it's not easy thing for anyone

I agree with Sweet Clementine (sorry, I don't know your name :blush: )

Abortion is only really apropriate because of the reasons she wrote, especially when you're pregnant because of being raped.

Yes, it might be that the fetus isn't born yet and thus might not be a 'human', but I disagree.

Just look at the photograph she's posted.

If you're having an abortion in like the second month, the fetus will be killed brutally (I really don't want to explain it here) and it's not that 'lifeless' as you might think.


Anyway, that's my five cent to it

I completely understand the feelings of parents and disabled children...and i understand why they would do it, but it just that i get this strange feeling that i love life and i dont want to kill it. It's nothing to do with God...its just i want to see it, but id hate it if i saw a severely disabled kid suffer but at the same time....they can have good lives in the short time they live depending on the support they have. In some ways, u find people who are terminally ill have that urgency that others dont, and they do more things than other people would.

anyway...im for life...and i resist any desentisisation toward the termination of babies or foetuses. Abortion should be a last resort...but it should exist. I dont like anti abortionists...coz their mostly religious (i cant be bothered with that, it alienates me) and for pro-abortion,...well i think they devalue babies or foetuses in some accidental way. Though i more on the pro abortion side.

that's the definition of a human?

see the last paragraph you wrote speaks ...volumes to me...coz i cant stand that idea that some people who are against abortion say its ok for a disabled kid to be aborted. To me its like their 2nd class. And i wouldnt want that to influence their decision. Seriously we can be quite good kids. Sure we need extra help but...humans can do it. I hate that idea...im kinda glad im disabled, sure i get a sore back but if i wasnt disabled i wouldnt have this unique viewpoint on the world. Sometimes i wonder if i would be different if i wasnt disabled.

i agree with you...im sorry but i just dont like the method, i dont care what their labelled...i just wouldnt do it unless it was at a last resort and i would think it through methodically and very fuckn quickly.

I was unwanted, unplanned, and pretty much grew up unloved by my mother. And yet I made something of myself. My mother's doctor told her to have an abortion, not because there was anything wrong with me, but because my mother was "too young" and unprepared. This world would be very different without me. I'm really glad I'm here. I was given a chance, and now I have no moral choice but to champion for others who might not get a chance at life. As a former fetus, I'm pro-life. And I can't help but think how many others, who would have been just like me, got flushed down a toilet out of convenience.

I agree with abortion when the fetus is result of a rape.
Also I think abortion has to be considered when the fetus is seriously affected by heavy handicaps or severe malformations that would made the baby's life nothing but an endless serie of pain and disgrace. I could never give birth to a kid whose only destiny is sufference, and moreover what would become of him/her when I'm gone, who's gonna care for him/her?

My Mom was going to do the same to me. Wish she had of. My life growing up was abused and used. I use to be 100% against abortion but when I look at what I went through and all the 100's of kids like me I say ok . It's better to never be in the world than to be treated so badly. And I don't care if you live to be 100,going through that kind of shit sticks with you no matter what you make of yourself and life as an adult....it's always there in the back of your mind. And that's not life...that's torment.

Unless your going to put the child up for an adoption and GIVE IT A CHANCE to go to a loving family that wants it more than anything and doesn't have to stay with the family that doesn't want it then no. Don;t do it because the child will be loved and cared about.
Have it and give it up. But if for some unknown reason [and I can't think of any right now] that you CAN'T put it up for an adoption and you don't want it then abort. It's better that way for the child to never suffer abusive neglecting parents that didn't want it.

Just my opinion though so no one get heated over it. That's just what I think. .... and I am only one :unsure:

I get pissed when doctors suggest it...i think you shouldnt put things in other peoples minds. Doctors could have agendas.

Doctors have their head up their ass and I hate everyone of them and will die before I see another one.... :angry


In short.....I agree. I've HEARD with my own ears a "Doctor" on TV once say abortion needs to be seen as acceptingly as a condom as a method of birth control and he will continue to tell his patients about it ....so I agree.
Can you imagine...you and your hubby try for years to have a baby....you get preg...and your so happy then your DR says you know...there is abortion? WHAT THE FUCK? I'd have to kill him\her right then. The patient should ask first IMO. They shouldn't. And he was a regular GYNO as well!


I wonder how much long this world can last...

Dont think its their place to suggest it until the patient brings it up.
I would smash a doctors face in if they even suggested i abort my baby if it had the same congenital condition as me.

Don't be so negative!
Try to stay positive for once

I have many views on it, but somehting to pounder is sometimes you really don't know how you will feel until you find yourself pregnant.
Abortion is something you need to think about from both sides por-life and pro-choice. Some people do come up with pretty fast responses and thats not right. I consider myself por-choice, only on the basis that abortion be the last resort. I am not religious nor am I heartless. There are a vast amount of facts both human right and scientific to look at and you must look at them carefully.
I DO NOT believe it should be used as a condom or birthcontrol ,that as a human is your responsiblitly. Before I began seeing my doctor I asked him what he's views were and to be brutaly honest with me if he wanted to tell me. He was pro-me. WTF? He said he would support what I choose if ever I found myself pregnant and unsure of what to do if (say it was unwanted) but he said read about both sides and talk to some women health clinics and therapist's. I respect him for that.
I do agree however should a women be raped and she does not want the child she could choose what she would like to do.
That photogragh was very prowerful and yet extremly disturbing, but I just think this is a discussion not a viewing board for something so powerful. I'm just saying is all.
Just look at everything with an open mind and an optimistic view, whatever you choose is your choice and you shouldn't be made to feel bad about your view once you have looked at both sides and made a safe and yet ethical choice you feel is right.
Maybe the best choice is for a man to keep he's pecker in he's pants and for a girl to keep her legs crossed. (okay bad joke).

You wish your mother had aborted you? If you really feel this way, I think you need some help, and I mean that sincerely. I had a crappy life growing up, and I love every day of my life. I would never want to not be here.

Kanna, I agree with what Raquel said here.
Maybe you were just being dramatic, but if you were not, really, listen to Raquel.

Well considering her family situation and all, i understand why she feels that way.

Metfuk: Not being dramatic its the honest truth. Or I would not have posted it.




I hate life. I hate living. Period.

And with all the respect I can say this with......seeing a DR or something won't help me. What on Earth could they possibly say to change my mind?
In the end...nothing. There is no help. Only help myself and I can't seem to. Some people can help them selfs and get a new outlook on life...some can not.


So I am stuck here until my end comes. I shall wait and try to hang on some way. Go about "my life" and wait...


But thanks. :heart:




[[[ and try to understand]]]

Well I think most of us think this way before they ever talked to someone like that. But they have learned for it how to make you think different. You should give it a try. :tu:

Thanks alot :heart:

But my reply is still no.

Thanks.

I was wanting to ask you something...it's off topic so sorry but I can't get into my PM folder for some reason and it wont let me send and it's not full so I don't know whats up so...i'll ask you here.

I've seen you say here and there your disabled...was just wondering what's wrong?

Hope you don't think I'm an ass for asking just curios.




My Dad is disabled as well. He has a disease [huge word I can't even pronounce let along spell] that deteriorates his bones and muscles... lots of bones and vertebra's are gone now.


Ok sorry for off topic.

Has he got multiple sclerosis or muscular dystrophy?

I have scoliosis which is a curvature of the spine and muscle weakness. It's alright now and again.

Regardless of your upbringing, hating life and wanting to be dead is not healthy in the least bit. Life is precious and you only get one. My only advice to you would be to find meaning in it by helping others. As cliche as it sounds, it's true: true happiness in life comes from serving others.

helping others isn't the same as serving them.
I think Kanna should find more ways of being pro-active so that there is something meaningful, maybe something to do with the church. Maybe even writing a internet magazine ... maybe you could take up sewing or knitting and open up your own shop.

Yup.
I used to be kind of depressive when I was 12-14 (I had some terrible friendships, you can read about them in the Bullying thread), and now I'm considered as a very optimistic and happy person by my friends.
One should have many "pillars" that hold up your life, you know? Just in case something goes wrong, you still have other things that make you happy.
As for me I have my family, my friends, music (listening, playing and learning), studying and I'm in Oxfam organizing "parties" to collect money for projects in Africa and South America.
If one of those go under, I have some more. You need those kind of things that make you feel happy about the day you have in front of you when waking up.
I hope for you that things get better in the future. I'm not familiar with your story but maybe your problem is a matter of patience or time :wink

I have the same thing. My left leg is the weak one. Do you have any rods in your spine? Are you mobile?

Hope it's okay I am asking this. I just don't come across a ton of people with spinal curvature.